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Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
33
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Posted - 2013.05.02 08:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
This would be definite immersion update since lowsec does not feel like empire space even they are that. Also risk of being pirate should be increased due to this problem that everyone want to shoot you in low. |
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
34
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Posted - 2013.05.02 12:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Felsusguy wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:What this game needs is more player initiative and interaction not NPCs. No, it needs both. NPCs are very important. No, they really aren't. We already have hauler spawns to cover your first and second points, and as for the rest, why would CONCORD in lowsec be a good thing?
Danika not very constructive post. If you read at all Felsusguys post the suggestion includes way more than CONCORD presence. Most of low sec if not all is empire space. Empire space should mean authority. If low sec shouldn't be this then please change the name of low sec to pirate sec and remove empire presence. |
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
34
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Posted - 2013.05.02 13:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote: Look, just because you want to be able to cruise through lowsec without having to worry about gatecamps doesn't mean everyone else does, nor that your vision is the way that particular area of space should be.
Again fail of being able to make constructive comment.
I quote:
FelsusGuy wrote: What this does is make low-sec midway between high-sec and null-sec, not a null-sec with a few restrictions and some gate guns. You can still plunder and pillage and avoid the law, but you have to be more careful when going about that. It also provides some opportunity for players who otherwise would be too discouraged to go. So long as you keep your wits about you, you can stay (relatively) safe while not being forced to cloak or hide in station or be good at PVP. If you wander around like it is high-sec? Well, then, eventually you are going to slip up and the pirates will have their way with you in a dark, unguarded metaphorical alley. And if you wander around like it is null-sec? Well, eventually you will be caught in a bad situation, and you will be dragged to your judgement.
Felsusguy did not want highsec concord that blows up everyone. Simply more risk of being outlaw. If you had any roleplay desire other than blowing other people up you would see this. |
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
34
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Posted - 2013.05.02 13:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Another confused themeparker post....
EvE Online is an sandbox mmo-rpg game, not a kindergarten themepark game. In EvE, players are the content. It makes no sense to spend CCP precious time making worthless themepark stuff, things like NPC shouldn't exist in EvE and hopefully will be removed from the game in a near future. Players are the "NPC's".
I am sure then that you also oppose the change on the warpgates? CCP spend their precious time for improving the experience in eve. Making it more kind of themepark.
All I see that there are pirates who are so scared that they are blown up that you are already loosing into your pants.
Bring more constructive comments quit whining. |
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
34
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Posted - 2013.05.02 13:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote: So why did he propose ideas that exist for no other reason than to counter gatecamps?
Some of his changes do affect going through gates. Instead of trolling and fighting back you could also see that this would also give new aspect to pirates. Ganking npc ships for money.
There has been yet no constructive post from you. Simply single line posts and you do not consider anything else but your precious gate gang. Is that all that the game has offer for you? If its so then I am very sad. |
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
34
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Posted - 2013.05.02 14:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Seems to me the guy wants the following:
1. No gate camps. Reading his DED strike team and police patrol sections, gate camps would not last for very long. Especially in 0.4 systems. 2. Belts to be safer on average. 3. Undocking to be safer.
Basically for low sec to be safer than it is. Unless you are caught at a customs office, a moon, or scanned down at a safe, low sec will have enhanced security compared to what it has now.
I've spend a fair amount of time in low sec, not doing pirate stuff, but doing isk making stuff. Not really a problem avoiding the player pirates IMO. Quite a bit of work for not much gain other than some people want to mine jaspet or some other crap ore (hint find a null alliance that focuses on carebearing or something along those lines so you can mine the really good high ends).
Given that CCP has finite resources and there are other parts of the game that are broken, I find this idea rather meh.
I also agree with Vaju Enki. Eve is a sandbox, that is its big selling point. Not that it has awesome NPCs.
Right now gate camping is busting up your gang on gate and sit until some unsuspecting guy comes through. You can do sunday picnic basically. You could still gate camp by playing it wise. And you would have to be mobile due to the police. That would actually make your sandbox game much livelier and make it more interesting. This makes it too easy to multibox gate camps.
Right now the part of low sec space I go into I can exactly tell where the gate camps are. Several systems are gate campped 24/7 by multiple corps. There is nothing fun in that.
If you are against Felsusguys suggestion then you can't either be against afk mining because gate camps are as easy right now.
Yet thank you for first seriously written post. *bows* |
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
34
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Posted - 2013.05.02 14:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Theia Matova wrote:Danika Princip wrote: So why did he propose ideas that exist for no other reason than to counter gatecamps?
Some of his changes do affect going through gates. Instead of trolling and fighting back you could also see that this would also give new aspect to pirates. Ganking npc ships for money. Ganking NPC ships has got to be one of the most boring activities in this game. I know some people like missions and stuff, but that isn't the main selling point of Eve. It is the sanbox nature of the game. That the players drive the content. I don't really care about rats, or convoys or any of that stuff. I like to find out who is doing what in Eve. Which alliances, coalitions, groups are doing what. How is that war going, who just suffered a big corp theft. I check Verite's map everyday. I run through various websites for tidbits here and there. This is what separates Eve from just about every other game out there.
I do not want EVE to become only NPC ganking either. What Felsusguy suggested was good balanced package. Slight security increase to low sec. Which would make pirates need to change systems and not stay at one place for too long. (I guess you could also kill these npcs if you desired..). But basically these NPCs would simply add to the immersion that the space would also be inhabitted by people. You could simply ignore them if you like. But they would be there to give more in depth feeling of the game. Even sandbox games have sources for resources. Either they are ore veins, asteroids, monster loot bags whatever. Also NPCs for creating immersion.
What I like mostly about Felsusguys post is that he does not want to destroy piracy. Yet making it little bit more risky and you would have to be more cunning to do so. Piracy picnic on the gates is just silly.
Personally I would like bubbles and bombs to be introduced in low sec too and make gate camping more difficult. So you would actually need skill with bubbles to be a pirate. But anyway Felsusguys idea is really nice. It would give immersion, possible resource source for pirates, make camping one system more difficult but not impossible. Risk should shift from travel activities where you actually gain something. Going through gate does not give anyone anything else except good mood. Therefore entering a gate is not balanced risk / reward because you do not get anything taking the risk.
What comes to station games as long as you cannot watch out of the station window or see scan of ships around the station they should also make it little bit more guarded. IMHO.. |
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
34
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Posted - 2013.05.02 14:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Lowsec is where empires stopped to care about space outside of their property which happen to be gates and stations. You wanna feel more secure you have an opportunity to fight for it. Just as gate campers have opportunity to camp gates and stations. "Only" difference between you and them is they don't expect NPCs to play the game for them.
Oh there are lot of things that separates me from such opportunist players.
1) I do not gank people with fleets bigger than the opponent 2) I do not gank PVE runners that are almost forced to buff certain resistance types. Leaving it very easy for you to knife in this cap 3) I do not gank industrials that are basically defenseless 4) I do not gank mining ships because they are almost defenseless
I enjoy fair fights where you actually have chance to win and lose. Actually if you do one of the 1-4 then you have really poor morals. Knifing any of the listed types actually mean you enjoy easy path of killing others. Making you a coward not being able to fight it fair. Yes its very coward style of play. In gate camping you can easily predict who is coming to you by placing scout in good spot. You know very well when you have to dodge and when not. If you want more people to shoot at to low sec then accept that there will be also defense for them. Because you have the edge anyway. |
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
34
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Posted - 2013.05.02 14:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: Not really. There was nothing there to enhance low sec for the people who have spent the most time there. It is all for those who want to gank NPCs or traverse low sec with less chance of a gank.
Also, since CCP has been moving in precisely the opposite direction for low sec (e.g. the change to gate guns), I think this is basically a waste of time.
If that is the case then I am quite sure it will become more quiet for gate camps every day due to more and more people realize how low sec is. You can do same mistake few times but you won't do it repeatably many times. But I guess this will repair itself when large corps are forced to turn on each other. Sadly large corps can keep this on going since those systems that they control usually have good source for money and resources. |
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
34
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Posted - 2013.05.02 15:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Here we go again - ganking miners equals being RL scum.
I did not speak a word of RL or being a scum. I said you were a coward. And also a troll because you cannot make constructive posts. Simply pulling and trying to avoid the discussion at hand. |
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Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
34
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Posted - 2013.05.02 20:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: 1) Nobody is saying remove all NPCs, but that the NPC experience is not a big part of the Eve experience.
2) Dude...space is big, hence the name. I think an argument can be made that you should find empty systems.
3) It takes resources from fixing things that are clearly broken and allocates them to something of dubious value.
1) you are not the only person to play eve, even null seccers say that they sometimes enjoy missioning epic arcs..
2) Low sec is populated space, there should be life deal with it.
3) Immersion is not wasted value not by far. Wake up to this decade. |
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
36
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Posted - 2013.05.02 22:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:There are many things in this game that are clearly borken--e.g. technetium. CCP is going to try and fix that with a re-balancing of resources. That will likely require considerable resources. I'm not saying if you want to "immerse yourself in the game, yore stoopid". What I am saying is that leaving something horribly broken for the sake of making a marginal tweak to the immersion experience is probably not wise.
CCP is addressing many issues in Odyssey. T2 mats get their tweaks. It remains to be seen if the changes they make are enough. Lot of love is coming in Odyssey. Almost everyone get their piece. WH, Null, Low, High. They deal many important issues in this expansion.
Immersion is important deal in games today. Its one of the things that have to be kept up to date or the game will receive less and less new players. Immersion as whole graphics, sounds the whole experience. I was actually really happy to see the EVE keynote that even VR has been looked into. There was lot of good things coming for both fixing imbalances and adding to immersion and happily I can say that CCP is going right direction in both. So thank you CCP. |
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
36
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Posted - 2013.05.03 14:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote: There needs to be LESS risk for being an outlaw, not more. The reason lowsec is so lowly populated is not because of a LACK of consequences to being an outlaw
err sorry I lose track right here. So low sec should only be for outlaws? How do you define one being outlaw if everyone are just raging lunatics? There is no law so there is no outlaws.
The reason why low sec is so little populated right now is because most popular entry points are gate campped almost 24/7. Tell me how low sec gets populated when you get blown up before you even get where you are going?
This risk that was suggested is rather easy to avoid you simply need to move. You would have to be more cunning to be pirate. Right now big part of piracy is to land your insta lock ABC to gate and wait that someone goes through. Oh don't forget the alt on the start of the tube to check who is coming.. Seriously this for of low sec PVP that is mostly in fashion right now is so lame. You can as well be blowing up NPCs such lame it is. I would say that its less risk for pirate than running level IV mission since pirates can always have scouts and be well known what is coming. Local makes it also sure that no one can land fleet on you because you can see it already very soon before.
Risk of gate camping should be increased. What comes to other form of piracy not. |
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
36
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Posted - 2013.05.03 15:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Yep, all connections between highsec and lowsec have a gatecamp....... now back to reality.
Gatecamps are run by players not NPC's. It's a player run event, they are pirating, committing acts of criminal violence, feasting on the weak and stupid, just like they did in the caribbeans, it's an awesome event. Now if you don't like that, how about do something about it, assemble a fleet go take them down? How about you form a corporation to hunt down pirates in lowsec?
It's really amazing how all themeparker expect NPC's to do their job and defend them in a sandbox mmo-rpg game. It's really pathetic. NPC's are not in the game to protect you, not even Concord. Concord exist to punish, not to protect.
It sounds to me that you are simply scared of need to move from system to system because whoops you might get to blown up and being the "stupid". Yes if it was more risky for you to stay at one place you would get more pirate to pirate interaction and pvp thats what you want? Oh wait NPCs are bad take them away they never do any good. |
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
36
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Posted - 2013.05.03 15:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
What comes to low sec and piracy too is that. Right now pirates need to shoot pirates for bounties / loot. When they are not PVPing that is. Of course killing NPC pirates also work for sec repair activity as well but when there would be other type of NPCs corporation / empire NPCs to kill they could perhaps yield higher value for loot but no bounty. So you could actually perhaps get needed modules you lose for PVP but also give you perhaps little dilemma how to trade it out since you are outlaw. Some of these dropped items could be tagged illegal like lets say real life money gets market with paint shot. So you would have to some how get it washed to get its true value.
So this would add more to piracy at least for those that did not care about their sec status. I even would like that this loot dropped from these empire NPCs was seriously higher to pirates. Or that you could blackmail them whatever illegal activity. That your sec status would stay below 0s so I can be trigger happy when I meet you.. The tag sec up that comes with Odyssey is bit gay since they did not announce it to have any cooldown. If getting rid of it is too easy then it does not stand any meaning..
This would of course perhaps mean that you could be "friends" with these NPC pirates that they would not be aggressive towards you.
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Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
38
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Posted - 2013.05.03 21:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
El Geo wrote:The new tags to increase sec status will help lowsec become more populated, I for one am lazy when it comes to gaining sec and prefer to stay above -2, so the new changes should see more people looking for things to kill, this doesn't exactly create a sandbox though, miners and industrialists are likely to still stay away, how to bring them into lowsec?
My biggest problem as small corp capsuleer is that some gates are literally camped 24/7. Yes its usually easy to see those choke points. But this said moving ships around low sec is simply too risky. This affects scanning sites, doing sites, doing missions. In missions you usually need to take 1 jump at least to get to mission site. If I would like to do IV mission in low a) for many it brings in mind BS, BS price is now going up which makes it even bigger risk (pssst even worse than it already is) b) mission rewards are not simply worth it they just are not.
I would like to be able to fly in space that was not as ultra safe as high sec is but right now how low sec risk and reward is -- don't go there -- and even how the PVP is between PVE <-> PVP fit ships. I do not see myself coming to low sec for very long time. There are simply too many issues to risk any PVE fit ship in most PVE activity there is to low sec. Just too many..
Seriously to expect more people in low sec. CCP would need to a) reduce risks that capsuleers face in low sec b) balance reward with the risk you take
I also would like to see solo and small corp being able to take part some of the better systems in low sec. Its not impossible no just risky.
If you are a pirate and want shoot players then vote for reducing the risk and increase the reward because otherwise you do not get anyone to shoot at. |
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
38
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Posted - 2013.05.05 17:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
Xavier Thorm wrote: Laying down my complete ideas on how I would like to see the relation between the different security types evolve would take a really long post, so I'll just respond to this specifically. I like that hisec exists for people who want that kind of environment, and I do not want any faction police or CONCORD to be removed. I think it would be pretty neat if players could start integrating into the faction police and CONCORD and (maybe, someday) completely take over their duties, but that doesn't mean I want those duties to change.
I have thought about player driven police but I believe it would never work why? * It would turn EVE game to become work instead of a game where you relax in. Soon you would escape EVE in some other worlds. * EVE players are too corrupt and the game supports corruption. Police force would not hold together because of drama these facts would cause.
Merely by knowing how hardcore playing can take joy out of games I would be against of real player driven police.
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Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
48
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Posted - 2013.05.06 16:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
Xavier Thorm wrote: Generally I agree. With the current state of the game, it would be way too much work for players if they entirely replaced CONCORD or Faction police, but I think it would be a cool opportunity for players (especially those into roleplay) if they could join those organizations (particularly DED). It might be a good career choice for players who want to be full-time bounty hunters.
Its curious idea thought I would see it as kind of faction warfare is. Those with hi sec on the otherside those low sec on the other. If you listed to the ded faction you would get faction reward much like in FW of course there would have to be similar to pirates perhaps special skill to scrap better parts from hisec destroyed hulls.
Don't see it as real form of bounty hunting though since bounties are not truly bound to sec status. If you would like to professionalise bounty hubting see to my bounty contract thread on my signature.
I think CCP did great work with the current bounty system but it does not work well enough on its own. Other ideas Bounty contracts |
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
52
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Posted - 2013.05.06 20:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
Xavier Thorm wrote: I'm not sure what you're talking about. I'm not suggesting anything like Faction Warfare, that already exists. I mean having players do the job that DED does in fiction, hunting down NPC leaders as some kind of mission, and dealing with particularly criminal players at their discretion. It would be particularly interesting if there was some kind of corporation structure (possibly with actual CCP employees in charge at first) that gave them orders regarding how to treat different entities in game, etc.
It was just an idea that came into my mind. I think there has to be motivator that makes gate campers to move around and not stay in one system but I am not sure if such DED strike force should be it.
What I suggested is not really faction warfare but its what it does most clearly refer to. It would promote hi / lo sec player clash giving possibility for player driven active police force that would hunt down pirates. Anyway it was just and idea :)
Still liking most of the NPC adds to low we definitely need more bits that make EVE space more immersive. Perhaps civilian ships around stations. Food producing ships. Freighters... You name it. Now the space is simply empty and dead. Other ideas Bounty contracts |
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
67
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Posted - 2013.05.07 19:37:00 -
[20] - Quote
Xavier Thorm wrote: Especially as we move toward a time when we can reasonably expect docking/undocking animations in the future, having some of those ships passing by in the background of the new stations actually be civillian ships that have their own jobs and routs to follow would be really cool.
Obviously there would have to be careful balance of any goods transported by these ships, so they don't introduce a dramatic resource faucet into the game, and the numbers couldn't be too ridiculous without negatively effecting the game's performance.
One of the things that really got me thinking about this was that line in the most recent trailer about the clashes between the Empires. I know we are currently living in relative peace, but from what little we see of the Empires' militaries I find it hard to even imagine them fighting a war.
I find the lack of feel that the empires should be at war really disturbing. It could be so called 'cold' war but how about we would see carriers near the borders at least? So it seemed that they tried to keep guard up. Now there is no sign of defending against possible threat or anything. Or how about news in captain quarters that would actually show us video pieces from faction war? At first these could be simply npcs fighting against each other but as the players would clash in faction warfare the system could actually generate a real footage of faction war. That would actually make it seem REALLY cool.
Freighters would be cool to see but what they would carry and what kind of guard they had is difficult to say. Yet would love to see them. There is a issue in low sec right now that even the most common supplies like ammo are not accessible it could be that npcs would try to move ammo with indu from some mediun price station in highsec to low. Adding lets say 20% to the price as they would sell them. These would be really small quatities. Only this change could make low sec more popular that you could buy even small quatity of such ammos from low sec and you would not have to go to high sec to get some. This would also promote buying and selling in low sec itself since it would be easy to compete against those prices.
Civilian ships seem to be completely lacking. I hope that it is in CCPs near future goals to add this immersion. They could be just decos on client side around the station or its hangars whatever. So it would not add server load but yet increasing immersion a lot. Other ideas Bounty contracts |
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